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Moderators: Jim Murray, narcosis, felixcatuk, Sammy
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| Sammy |
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Sammy   Registered Member #143 Joined: Sun Mar 09 2008, 08:36PMPosts: 637 | Wow - a little misin'phormed'? Article [ Edited Wed Jul 30 2008, 05:13AM ] Protect your Privacy; Stop Phorm Petition Government to Stop Phorm | Stop Phorm on Bebo | ||
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| Midnight_Voice |
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 Registered Member #180 Joined: Thu Mar 13 2008, 08:51PMPosts: 398 | Sammy wrote ... Wow - a little misinphormed'? Let's see if this comment survives moderation there: Amazon just track me on their site. And I can stop this if I want to. But Phorm will track me everywhere, and I can't stop it even by opting out, as all my traffic goes through their kit at my ISP even so. This is way too intrusive. Also, tracking me on other sites and reading the pages I look at means that Phorm is riding on the back of all the hard work of those website creators, just to serve me ads relating to those products when I am elsewhere. At least Amazon stands or falls by the quality of its own website, and whether or not we mutually get value from it, Amazon and I, in the form of me making further purchases from them. Also, it is really better technology? If I visit Google, Phorm will fake a Google cookie with that special Phorm Id in it. And likewise if I visit Microsoft, or PC World, or Amazon. Or here for that matter. Amazon, at least, only create Amazon cookies. And those forged cookies - any one of the sites I've visited can read back 'their' Phorm cookie, learn my Phorm UID, and marry it up with anything they have - my IP address, even my name and address perhaps. So bang goes that much-vaunted extra privacy - it's a sham. Finally, should we trust the people behind Phorm? Well, they clearly don't trust us. Those who signed up to their software in good faith in their previous incarnation as 121Media found that they couldn't uninstall it, if they decided they wanted to - they found themselves rootkitted into staying. Nice freedom of choice - not. So far, and as best I can tell, Amazon haven't rootkitted me, and they are not proposing to install hardware in my ISP so I can't escape them watching me even if I want to. So, to go back to your question 'Are Amazon evil?' for doing what you perhaps imply is the same thing - well, no they are not evil, and they are not doing the same thing. Oh, and nobody got rich by saying consumers are wrong. Firstly, we are not wrong about Phorm. And secondly, even if we were, it's the perception that matters. If we don't want this thing - and we don't - then it isn't going to happen. Period. Remember GM foods? I'm a nonconPhormist; I won't be conned by Phorm | ||
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| phormicate |
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 Registered Member #219 Joined: Tue Mar 18 2008, 10:59PMPosts: 15 | This Dax chap works for icrossing a digital marketing company so he does have a vested interest in it. By his latest post looks like they are thinking of dealing with phorm. | ||
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| phormwatch |
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 Registered Member #297 Joined: Sun Apr 06 2008, 01:57AMPosts: 212 | Actually, this may be the machinations of Phorm's new digital PR agency. I've noticed a lot of marketing websites pop-up lately with pro-Phorm PR [READ THE AUP!]. http://phormwatch.blogspot.com/ | ||
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| daxthink |
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 Registered Member #505 Joined: Tue Jul 29 2008, 11:09AMPosts: 12 | Hi all, This blog post seems to have raised a lot of interesting questions and valid feedback. As many of you have taken the time to reply on the blog, I wanted to take the time to reply here and continue the discussion. I did want to clear something up though. One of the comments mentions that as I work at ICrossing then I have a vested interest. iCrossing is indeed a digital marketing agency, and my group is responsible for buying media worldwide. One of the goals of any media campaign is to try and target the ads as accurately as possible to each consumer, as I am sure you are fully aware. My interest in Phorm is that they seem to be able to offer some clever targeting going forward, and so I will explore their offering to see whether its right for our clients. At this stage I have not yet met them and had chance to ask some of the valid questions you have raised. But that is the extent of which I have a 'vested interest'. The other point I would make is that I think the consumers have the wrong perception of all types of tracking, including cookies and potentially including Phorm, not that consumers are wrong per se. As I also noted on the blog, consumer choice will determine the success of Phorm, and consumers have the ability to walk with their feet to another ISP. Admittadely trickier no BT is on board. I stand by my general point of the piece though, tracking is an essential part of being online and an important part of the online ad world. At this time I have a very balanced view and will not make a decision until I have spoken to all sides. | ||
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| Frank Rizzo |
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 Registered Member #75 Joined: Sun Mar 02 2008, 06:49PMPosts: 183 | There is a big difference between "tracking" and total analysis of every word read and written. This is what some consumers are against - the total invasion of privacy of which there is no way to not be part of it. Even if a consumer does not opt-in to the targetted ad system his data is still be processed. [ Edited Tue Jul 29 2008, 11:43AM ] | ||
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| daxthink |
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| Registered Member #505 Joined: Tue Jul 29 2008, 11:09AMPosts: 12 | Frank - I want to establish a benchmark of acceptability for want of a different phrase to help me understand the POV of this forum. As a start, what is your stance on Gmail analysing your personal emails to determine the best ads to show you? Is this acceptable (or 'more' acceptable because you have the choice not to use Gmail? | ||
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| daxthink |
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| Registered Member #505 Joined: Tue Jul 29 2008, 11:09AMPosts: 12 | Midnight_voice - happy to accept all comments on the blog post but havent had your submitted. if you send it in as a blog comment then I will accept it. It all contributes to the debate. | ||
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| Frank Rizzo |
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| Registered Member #75 Joined: Sun Mar 02 2008, 06:49PMPosts: 183 | Cross posted... That is the consumer side. Now onto the problem those who host their own sites have. Targetted ads such as this will take and analyse (copyrighted) information from a site in order to drive traffic to a competitor. Think of it like this: Two DIY stores: A&Z and Homespace. A customer visits A&Z store and walks up and down the isles. He looks at various products and talks to sales assistants. The customer asks about Superglue, examines a box of grass seed, and looks at the garden sheds. EVERYTHING that customer reads and says is recorded and analysed.... Whilst driving around the town the customer starts seeing adverts for Homespace Buy SuperGlue at Homespace Homespace sale on Grass Seeds Get your Shed at Homespace Now that kind of thing may be an advertising ultimate goal but what about A&Z store? The advertising engine has stolen all the product info and customer information from A&Z and used that to attract the customer to a rival store. As has been said here previously (I think Pete made the phrase) Google uses keywords from your site to drive customers to you. Phorm uses keywords from your site to drive customers to your competitors. | ||
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| Frank Rizzo |
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| Registered Member #75 Joined: Sun Mar 02 2008, 06:49PMPosts: 183 | gmail I don't use gmail so it doesn't bother me. If I have to reply to a gmail address I know Google would want to do something with it. For those reasons I can choose either to use or not use gmail, or to be specific with a reply to a gmail account. Not only that but there is a benefit for me if I wish to have a FREE gmail account. With targetted advertising such as Phorm and Nebuadd ALL of my personal data is intercepted and processed even if I choose not to have the ads - there is no choice and there is no benefit to me. [ Edited Tue Jul 29 2008, 11:48AM ] | ||
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