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Moderators: Jim Murray, narcosis, felixcatuk, Sammy
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| wecpc |
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 Registered Member #307 Joined: Mon Apr 07 2008, 01:05PMPosts: 3 | I just had this reply from O2, amd it looks like a safe bet to go with a PHORM free ISP. "Thanks for your email. We don't currently use the PHORM system, and have no plans whatsoever to do so. I hope this make you feel safer about joining O2 Broadband. Remember if you are moving to us, to ask for a MAC code to make your move as quick and as easy as possible." | ||
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| Oblonsky |
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| Guest | I really urge people to ask not just about Phorm but any kind of sale of private data to any other company. Slightly off topic but there are companies out there who buy so called "traffic data". That is, every website you visit, albeit anonymised and used to compile website popularity charts. See hitwise | ||
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| felixcatuk |
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felixcatuk   Registered Member #95 Joined: Wed Mar 05 2008, 12:03AMPosts: 2584 | I spoke to a consultant working inside O2 recently. She told me they are well aware of the RIPA implications and can't comprehend what BT have done/are doing with Phorm Ready to leave BT? Call 0800 800 030 / 0800 328 6738, get your MAC code | ||
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| EtherDreams |
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 Registered Member #185 Joined: Fri Mar 14 2008, 09:27PMPosts: 114 | Somewhere I read that the "clickstream" data that some ISPs are selling to web analytics companies consists of UID+URL+Referrer+Timestamp entries. Where UID is supposedly an arbitrarily assigned unique identifier for the user. IOW, it is far from anonymous. | ||
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| madslug |
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 Registered Member #266 Joined: Tue Apr 01 2008, 12:11PMPosts: 771 | I thought ALL ISPs sold clickstream data - part of their way of planning how much to invest for new infrastructure. Not to mention charging each other for the traffic they carry. Maybe it is just the networks selling everything - the ISPs only run on the networks. HTTPS anyone? Who is tracking your surfing? iCab mobile browser with its privacy controls now available to iPhone and iPod from the App Store - turn images off for faster and beacon free surfing. | ||
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| EtherDreams |
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| Registered Member #185 Joined: Fri Mar 14 2008, 09:27PMPosts: 114 | I'm wondering if we are talking about the same thing. I'm talking about ISPs literally selling the browsing history of each of their users. In some cases, like with Hitwise I think, they allow the company to tap into their network (like Phorm, NebuAd, etc) and snoop the packets. I can recall reading one patent where the sniffer ties into the ISP's authentication system to identify the individual across IP address changes, inspects passwords in login attempts in order to identify the individual, logs HTTPS connections, logs FTP transfers, appends information about purchases from merchant websites, etc. It would seem to be much, much worse than Phorm. I can see individual ISPs collecting such information for purposes of determining aggregate usage patterns, and perhaps even sharing aggregate data. Explicitly selling or allowing a third party to collect per-user data is WAY over the line. | ||
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| Simplepieman |
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| Registered Member #296 Joined: Sat Apr 05 2008, 01:42PMPosts: 86 | Didn't the ICO say PECR rules govern "traffic data" and this must be opt-in. Surely clickstream data is traffic data and the ISPs have to offer opt-in to sell this. | ||
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| madslug |
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| Registered Member #266 Joined: Tue Apr 01 2008, 12:11PMPosts: 771 | From this page it looks like data from the ISP's logs - aggregate data only, is sent to Hitwise. The stuff shared by websites and computer users could be less anonymous. If the data used is less than aggregate and anonymous, whatever solution comes out of halting profilers should also be valid legislation for any other use of traffic data. Who is tracking your surfing? iCab mobile browser with its privacy controls now available to iPhone and iPod from the App Store - turn images off for faster and beacon free surfing. | ||
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| EtherDreams |
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| Registered Member #185 Joined: Fri Mar 14 2008, 09:27PMPosts: 114 | It was actually a Hitwise patent that I was recalling. You can dig it, and perhaps similar ones, up if you are interested. Perhaps they don't use such a system at every ISP in every country. Still, the page you linked to mentioned proprietary software to analyze ISPs' logs. That is more than enough to send a chill down my back. Consider the misrepresentations that Phorm has made. Perhaps Hitwise and other companies are similarly crafty when it comes to public comments about how their system works? It seems to me there is a potential difference here... bidirectional vs unidirectional interception. If the only data being collected is outgoing user data, and that user met the definition of informed consent when he/she signed up for service and agreed to the service terms, what is there to argue? I also think it is easier for analytics companies to spin their data collection as innocent collection of aggregated data even when the raw data collected is exactly the same as in the targeted advertising case. | ||
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| madslug |
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| Registered Member #266 Joined: Tue Apr 01 2008, 12:11PMPosts: 771 | Perhaps the biggest difference is that it is only logs being analysed. That ranks sites as to their popularity and HitWise earns revenue from that data. It does not analyse the content of the site and reverse engineer that into a revenue channel aimed at the personal data of visitors to the sites. If everyone handling the PII data within the logs is obeying the rules, it can go a long way and still be legal under the legislation. Is the ISP / website an agent of HitWise or is HitWise the agent? Back to Phorm, NebuAd, FrontPorch ..... and catch HitWise in the net, if applicable. The last thing we need is a law for each variant: the protections should be stronger than that. Who is tracking your surfing? iCab mobile browser with its privacy controls now available to iPhone and iPod from the App Store - turn images off for faster and beacon free surfing. | ||
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