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Moderators: Jim Murray, narcosis, felixcatuk, Sammy
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| TheOtherSteve |
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 Registered Member #178 Joined: Thu Mar 13 2008, 03:55PMPosts: 46 | Hi again PhormUKPRteam :) A few points. "We've sought our own legal opinions as well as consulted widely with experts such as Ernst & Young, ... " Who applied US law, and are in any case, not lawyers. " ... 80/20 Strategic Thinking, ..." Who have, by Simon Davies' own admission, not audited you for compliance with ANY laws, and are in any case, not lawyers. " ...the Home Office, ..." Who have misled Phorm and the ISPs very badly. For instance, Simon Watkin states that a case could made that since a web page is public, permission to intercept could be implied. This is wrong. Permission can be implied to DOWNLOAD, not to INTERCEPT. The law is quite clear on this. "Ofcom ... " Ofcom can't give legal advice either, and in any case I have searched their archive and not found a single mention of Phorm. Although I have just emailed them to ask them if this is true. " ... and the Information Commissioner's Office (ICO)." We are yet to see any evidence of the results of these consultations. Indeed, I believe the ICO is still investigating. I know you are paid to say strange things that are not always true, but I would seriously start looking for a fall back position on this, if I were you. | ||
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| EtherDreams |
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| Registered Member #185 Joined: Fri Mar 14 2008, 09:27PMPosts: 33 | PhormUKPRteam wrote ... I would say (again) if you opt out, the Phorm system is off. No data is passed to us to process. That is inconsistent with Ertugrul's own statements. The system was apparently designed such that even when you opt-out your HTTP traffic will be passed to elements of the Phorm system for processing. The fine point is... supposedly... that the system won't complete its processing and store anything. It really would be best if when you opt-out your traffic never comes in contact with the system. I *think* that is what BT is looking into, and perhaps TalkTalk, but I don't know for a fact. Ertugrul touched upon this in today's chat, saying something like I'm satisfied with the effectiveness of the current opt-out but BT would like to improve the perception of it. Something like that. In any case, this seems to be an ISP specific issue or choice. While it is on my mind I just have to say it. These ISPs are absolutely unbelievable. THEY are the ones doing this. How it is done depends in part on what THEY decide. Yet they sit back and do/say squat. I'll give some Phorm guys (not these PR clowns) credit... they do get up/out and answer some questions. These ISPs are cowards, and by that I mean the officers/managers responsible for this. They should quite literally and roughly be dragged in front of a commission of some sort and made to answer questions. While people throw vegetables at their heads. | ||
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| MarkH |
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| Registered Member #183 Joined: Fri Mar 14 2008, 11:31AMPosts: 15 | http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=2612&start=281 That link will take you to the post showing one of the BT forum moderators stating they are trying to develop an opt-out that won't require cookies and will make sure no user data is mirrored once the opt-out is taken. In my opinion that shows that as things would normally be set up, all user data would be mirrored, and then there is only the promise of the spyware merchant that it would not be processed by them. Their word isn't enough for me. | ||
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| andy2008 |
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| Registered Member #217 Joined: Tue Mar 18 2008, 02:59PMPosts: 24 | PhormUKPRteam wrote ... And lastly, ref: the claims that Webwise is illegal. It's not illegal - we don't agree with FIPR. They offer one view on a piece of the law that is untested. All of the legal advice we've taken and conversations we've had with various experts on DPA and RIPA support our position that our system complies with all the appropriate laws. you really believe this ? either your ignorant or just plain stupid. Of course its illegal. You cant fool us unlike the unsuspecting public. Phorm in any shape or form as it currently stands does not comply with british law. It may comply with the next to useless privacy laws in the states but over here we have stricter laws ? And will you please stop lying ? THERE IS a download involved: Phorm had a spyware complaint against it: "Back in 2005, when Phorm operated under the 121Media banner, CDT filed a complaint (pdf) with the Federal Trade Commisssion over distribution of what it considered spyware. 121Media later withdrew its rootkit software " http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/14022008/323/phorm-exclusive-ad-platform-deals-bt-talktalk-virgin-media-update.html An important bit here is the phrase "The ISPs will also get Webwise, a free software tool which offers greater consumer protection from fraud and phishing scams by warning customers if they are browsing fraudulent websites." Two small things 121media used to get you to download its spyware by embedding it in a free program sound familiar ?? :| STOP LYING !!!!!! LYING TO PEOPLE IS WRONG - YOUR NOTHING BUT A LIAR !!!! [ Edited Thu Mar 20 2008, 05:57PM ] "I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes." | ||
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| andy2008 |
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| Registered Member #217 Joined: Tue Mar 18 2008, 02:59PMPosts: 24 | narcosis wrote ... I know it's starting to get really annoying reading the same things over & over again and getting no real answers but can we PLEASE stop with the use of offensive language on the forums as this is against the AUP & I don't particularly want to start censoring posts :/ could we also add spamming to the AUP ? so far PhormUKPRTeam has only spammed these boards with useless posts. "I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes." | ||
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| compo |
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| Registered Member #18 Joined: Mon Feb 25 2008, 06:31PMPosts: 39 | PhormUKPRteam wrote ... Quite a few points raised in the thread, but to kick off, I would point out that the name change was requested by those on this forum. Again not quite true. You came here pretending to be who you were not. The name was changed after your scam was discovered. [ Edited Thu Mar 20 2008, 09:51PM ] | ||
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| MMOutPhorm |
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| Registered Member #34 Joined: Wed Feb 27 2008, 12:55AMPosts: 32 | EtherDreams said: "While it is on my mind I just have to say it. These ISPs are absolutely unbelievable. THEY are the ones doing this..." Tend to agree very much. Phorm is just a bunch of audacious guys trying to get hand on the google billions. Real villains are in the ISPs. | ||
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| Oblonsky |
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 Registered Member #132 Joined: Sat Mar 08 2008, 10:59AMPosts: 91 | PhormUKPRteam wrote ... We have already stated don't agree with FIPR's analysis. The law is untested and the FiPR description of the Phorm system is inaccurate. Our technology complies with the Data Protection Act, RIPA and other applicable UK laws. We've sought our own legal opinions as well as consulted widely with experts such as Ernst & Young, 80/20 Strategic Thinking, the Home Office, Ofcom and the Information Commissioner's Office (ICO). I INVITE YOU TO RELEASE YOUR LEGAL ADVICE, NAME(S) OF ADVISORS AND ANY ADVICE RECEIVED FROM THE ICO. NOTE I INTEND TO SUBMIT A REQUEST UNDER THE FOI ACT TO THE ICO TO RELEASE ANY ADVICE ISSUED TO PHORM IN RELATION TO TARGETED ADVERTISING TECHNOLOGY. | ||
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| SilverWave |
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| Registered Member #101 Joined: Thu Mar 06 2008, 12:35AMPosts: 35 | serial wrote ... Can the profiler from here on be known as ... [end quote] How about... the, Phorm provided, Profiler(interceptor). [ Edited Sat Mar 22 2008, 12:44PM ] | ||
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| Midnight_Voice |
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| Registered Member #180 Joined: Thu Mar 13 2008, 08:51PMPosts: 41 | PhormUKPRteam wrote ... Hi all Knowing how much you are following the ICO and Phorm at present, and at the risk of sounding like a broken record ------------------------------------------------ Greetings, PhormUKPRTeam. Don't worry - you don't sound like a broken record at all to me. From here, you just sound like a stuck CD-R... [ Edited Sat Mar 22 2008, 01:53PM ] Big Brother: a programme people watch, or a program watching people? | ||
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